DUST Search - Clarifications on the "Pay to win" issue.

BMSTUBBY wrote:

It is a very grey line that CCP is walking with this whole F2P but not P2W concept.

Time as you pointed out is part of the investment.

I call BS on the whole I will "Eventually Gäó" catch up with the P2W booster group.

P2W, P2 "get a head", P2 "keep up with the No lifers ", or P2 "get to easy mode faster".
However it is phrased it comes down to this.

I have spent $40 bucks on this " F2P " game (2) Merc Packs.
I have only missed two weeks of not hitting the cap.
I have used (2) 30 day active boosters and (2) 7 day passive boosters and I am sitting @ 6.5 Million SP right now.

I could have been at more but I was switching my passive in-between two characters for a while my choice I know. Roll

Now I could have dumped more $ into boosters and would have been right up there in the 10 + million SP club running Proto gear but I did not do this.
So now I am 3.5 million SP's behind the P2 " insert text here " club.

Oh sure I will get to that proto suit "Eventually Gäó" but by that time the P2 " insert text here " guys will be working on a second full proto suit build.

In the Dust Development video CCP stated that in the future there will be a monthly subscription option that will include automatic boosters built in to the subscription plan I wonder what P2 " insert text here" this will be labeled as.

Now lets look at this from the new guys eyes! Shocked

Hell I am light years ahead of that guy/girl who has not even tried this game out yet.

Yeah, yeah all FPS's have beginners and vets, blah, blah, blah!

Ahhh, but this is not supposed to be your average FPS now is it?

It is a MMOFPS, right?

TL;DR:

This will always be a P2W FPS in the eyes of the people that are behind the P2 " insert text here" club because new blue dots will continue to get PUB stomped by the P2 " insert text here" club.


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Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 74	Posted - 2013.04.24 14:07:00 - [1] - Quote Since there are a lot of people that don-¦t know how the mechanic works, and a lot of trolls that wish to misinform, let me show briefly how stuff works in an economy with ISK and Aurum, first with EVE Online, then with Dust 514 EVE Online 1 - You have real money, and buy PLEX. 2 - With Plex, you can either convert it for Aurum, sell it at the market for ISK, or use it to get 30 day game time. 3 - With Aurum, you buy cosmetic and vanity items. 4 - If you chose so, you can sell these vanity items at the market, for ISK Pretty simple huh? If you want quick ISK, you buy a plex, and either sell it directly or convert to aurum, then to item, them sell the item. No killing of NPC-¦s all day long to make your wallet fat, just need to set a good price and wait for some other player buy stuff from you. (Hopefully, at a good price) As of now, there is no market available in Dust 514, and the process is a little bit different from EVE. Let me show you. Dust 514 1 - You have real money, and add it to your PSN account 2 - With the PSN account money, you buy a Mercenary Pack (Good deal, enjoy it) 3 - With your brand new Aurum, you can buy "Special" modules and equipment, boosters, and more stuff (Check the AUR Storefront) 4 - As of now, you can either save the stuff you bought for the future, or use it yourself. That-¦s how AURUM works. Not that complicated, right? Now, let-¦s adress a few common questions, and hpe we can clarify some issues. Isn-¦t buying Aurum unfair to the players that don-¦t have money to spend? When you play the game, you are investing in it, and the "currency" can present itself in many forms (Emotional investment is a form of it!), but the two major ones are Time and Money, and they usually work in inverse proportionality. All of the game is available to the players, the destination is the same, the only difference is that you either invest a lot of time to get there, spending little or no money, or you get there in a shorter ammount of time, but spending money. It-¦s a trade off, More money - Less time, or More Time - Less money, but in the end, no matter what path you choose, you get to the same place of other payers. I don-¦t think that-¦s unfair, do you? Are Aurum items Pay to Win (P2W) ? They shouldn-¦t! A lot of games makes certain powerful items available only to those players that invest real money, no matter how dedicated you are, how much time and emotion you invest in the game. As a player, this kind of model bother me a lot, because it doesn-¦t reward dedication, and what would games be if there were no passionate players (with or without money)? CCP has stated many times that they won-¦t use this kind of model (40:50), all items that you buy with AUR should have an ISK equivalent. This means that if you don-¦t have real money to put in the game, you can play a lot, earn a lot of ISK, and then buy a gear that have the same stats (or better) than the AUR ones. If by any chance you find an AUR item that is superior to an ISK one, send a mail to CCP, make a forum post, discuss it, because it-¦s a mistake and shouldn-¦t be there. So, again, either you invest time, or you invest money (Or both!), but the endgame is the same for everyone. I don-¦t think that-¦s p2w, do you? I play a lot and have a lot of ISK, but i really wanted to give a try at (insert interest here) without investing so much time in a group of skills. Will i ever be able to try it out without investing so much time like the AUR people? That-¦s a very valid concern. Some equipment demand an investment of time in the order of months to use, and if i just want to try it out, should i have to wait that long, even if i don-¦t have real money? Remember back at the beggining of the text where i mentioned how the EVE Online aurum works? (Go read it if you forgot already). In the future, we-¦ll also have a market available in DUST 514, and the people who buy stuff with AUR, will be able to not only use it for themselves, but also sell them for ISK (expect very high prices). So you, dear player with a lot of passion and time, will be able to trade your time (ISK) for someones money (AUR). All this depends of course on the Market being implemented, so watch out for Fanfest and let-¦s cross our fingers that it comes soon (not TM). *** If you have any other questions, comments or even disagrements, feel free to share them! Hope this was informative for you. Best regards Natu Nobilis
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2013.04.25 02:55:00 - [2] - Quote BMSTUBBY wrote: It is a very grey line that CCP is walking with this whole F2P but not P2W concept. Time as you pointed out is part of the investment. I call BS on the whole I will "Eventually Gäó" catch up with the P2W booster group. P2W, P2 "get a head", P2 "keep up with the No lifers ", or P2 "get to easy mode faster". However it is phrased it comes down to this. I have spent $40 bucks on this " F2P " game (2) Merc Packs. I have only missed two weeks of not hitting the cap. I have used (2) 30 day active boosters and (2) 7 day passive boosters and I am sitting @ 6.5 Million SP right now. I could have been at more but I was switching my passive in-between two characters for a while my choice I know. Now I could have dumped more $ into boosters and would have been right up there in the 10 + million SP club running Proto gear but I did not do this. So now I am 3.5 million SP's behind the P2 " insert text here " club. Oh sure I will get to that proto suit "Eventually Gäó" but by that time the P2 " insert text here " guys will be working on a second full proto suit build. In the Dust Development video CCP stated that in the future there will be a monthly subscription option that will include automatic boosters built in to the subscription plan I wonder what P2 " insert text here" this will be labeled as. Now lets look at this from the new guys eyes! Hell I am light years ahead of that guy/girl who has not even tried this game out yet. Yeah, yeah all FPS's have beginners and vets, blah, blah, blah! Ahhh, but this is not supposed to be your average FPS now is it? It is a MMOFPS, right? TL;DR: This will always be a P2W FPS in the eyes of the people that are behind the P2 " insert text here" club because new blue dots will continue to get PUB stomped by the P2 " insert text here" club. Well, as an EVE Online player that is accostumed to a passive only skill sytem, i really can-¦t follow your reasoning. I have a char with 83m SP, and another with 26m. The 26m one does a lot of things BETTER than the 83m, hell, somethings i can-¦t even DO with the 83m one and the 26m can. When you have the core skills and the basic of your "main" class, the rest of the SP becomes a mere complement. It doesn-¦t take that long to become good in a thing, and while you play it, you are training for a second, a third and so on "classes". I really can-¦t see what-¦s the issue with booster or non booster.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2013.04.25 10:14:00 - [3] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: you will always LOSE aslong as there are AURUM items that you can get ONLY with real $$$ aka AURUM. Then with the same ammount of player skill and SP, a Proto ISK gear will always lose to an Aurum variant? Your argument is a little fragile. trollsroyce wrote: AURUM items are very much pay to win on corporate level, as you use the saved isk on PC costs. You pay to win the economic warfare, as ultimately PC is a game of isk What is the difference of a 16 man corp buying corp stuff with aurum, and a 30 man corp with 16 corp battle players and 14 public match ones that earn ISK that finances the corp investments? Either you have time or money, i don-¦t see where aurum would be a specific mechanic breaker, could you please clarify? Groza Tragediya wrote: Lol dust is P2W. Someone that specs into standard gear buys ADV level gear with aurum. Goes against others in standard gear and trashes them. Good balance right? I mean clearly he was at the same level right? Thats fair. No, dust is P2W This line of reason would only be effective if: - Better gear meant automatic win - Better gear was only accessible via aurum.
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2013.04.25 11:54:00 - [4] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Groza Tragediya wrote: Lol dust is P2W. Someone that specs into standard gear buys ADV level gear with aurum. Goes against others in standard gear and trashes them. Good balance right? I mean clearly he was at the same level right? Thats fair. No, dust is P2W DUST is pay-to-skip-grind. You spend real money, you're on a higher level of gear sooner. You compare that guy using AUR gear to someone using ISK gear of that same tier, and he'll get stomped because he skipped the grind and doesn't have the passives to back the gear. Yep, people forget that it-¦s not only having the gear, it-¦s to know how to use the gear. That comes with practice, and practice takes time. Yesterday i found an empty AUR tank, with no modules no nothing, just parked in a spot. I really amuse myself when i see people with too much money and too little know-how doing stupid things. Makes the tears taste better.